I bought a pair of Rs3 antennas last year and have been frustrating to use in Rtk mode.
Connected through ntrip or LoRa.
Before buying the Rs3 I had some Rs from 2018, which by the way continue to work without a problem even though they no longer receive updates.
I thought that by having the Rs3 the improvement would be in all aspects but that is not the case.
The fix I get with the Rs3 is very unstable, it jumps from fix to single all the time. It becomes annoying.
A couple of weeks ago I did a stakeout in a semi-arid area. Few trees of 3 or 4 meters. Use an Rs3 as a base, another Rs3 as a rover and as a precaution carry an Rs due to the poor LoRa experience on the Rs3.
The stakeout points were about 300 meters away.
At the end of the day I finished the staking with the 2018 Rs because the Rs3 no longer received corrections and remained in single mode.
Which makes me wonder… Did EMLID modify or reduce the capacity of the LoRa radios in the Rs3 to introduce the UHF receiver they now have?
What can I do to improve or increase the LoRa connection? I see that Emlid now sells an antenna to receive UHF corrections in the Rs3.
That antenna connects to the same port as the LoRa antenna? If true, could you use it to send and receive corrections with LoRa?.
The UHF antenna is tuned for 410-470 MHz which is a completely different frequency band to LORA 900 Mhz and would not work properly.
LORA is low power at only 0.1W and very line of sight. If you are amongst trees, buildings or over hills the signal will get blocked and reduce range. Thats just the basic physics. I get a few hundred meters in the bush here with LORA and I’m happy with that given what it is.
A UHF radio will work bit better in difficult conditions at the lower frequency, and push out more power with some up to a max of 35W but they require a licence. Horses for courses.
EMLID don’t (yet?) have repeater capability but it is possible to get an aftermarket longer range LORA antenna kit but I haven’t tried one so can’t vouch for it.
I have never understood users who defend the negative or problems of a product and even less those who mention that since it is a low-priced product we have to hope that it does not work properly.
Do you imagine that Emlid will place a warning on his page? “Our products are low cost for the same reason they may have problems getting the job done.”
I know you didn’t mention the price but it is one of the many excuses that several Emlid users have.
Personally I am not satisfied with such a range. And I am not requesting more than what they promise in the characteristics, not even half 4 km. But a reasonable range that allows me to work without problems.
I asked Emlid about the uhf antenna because I had the “hope” that if it used the same SMA connection port as the LoRa, it would be longer and, I suppose made of better material than the stock antennas, it would be able to work with it.
I had already noticed the difference in frequencies but I want to be sure.
I don’t know if you have or have worked with Rs3 but I can tell you that the fix and connection between them is very unstable.
I mention again that by using Rs3 as a base and as a rover’s an Rs3 and a Rs from 2018.
I get a greater range and more stability in the fix with the Rs.
I appreciate the idea of ​​buying a LoRa antenna with a longer range, I suppose it could be a solution.
I don’t know if anyone can recommend any brand or dbi’s with which they achieve good performance.
Something is either different with your settings between the old RS and new RS3 or a hardware problem with the RS3 (or even firmware etc problem?)
I don’t think that anyone is defending excuses… but its pretty common to say “you get what you pay for”. I.e. plunk down a HUGE amount of cash (or hock your home) for a full Leica or Trimble setup that already HAS HIGH POWER RADIOS for your needs and instant support when you need it… but that is going to cost you… on a constant basis $$$$$$$$$$$
Leica and Trimble can do this as goverment agencies DEMAND their use for huge million/billion dollar projects.
There are options for higher power radios, which u can search here. But honestly, it may just be your settings or possibly something wrong with the hardware worst case scenario. Email support@emlid.com and upload screenshots.
No-one is defending anything, simply pointing out basic physics and its limitations that apply to anything. And actually spending time trying to help you including steps you could take, have you looked at the configs?
Yes, I have two RS3’s and I use them the same as you. And I also have Trimble receivers. They all add value, and I Iike all of them. And LoRa is one of the things I particularly like about the RS3’s, you don’t get 900mHz and it’s simplicity with Trimble survey receivers. It’s typically only found in their construction & agriculture systems for use across local sites because of it’s limited range. There’s a message there.
You are not providing much detail to help anyone to help you if you do really want it.
Some general possibilities:
Environment, you haven’t provided any details/pictures including obstacles. Are you actually testing the RS against RS3 at the same reference points so it’s apples to apples or is it just a general opinion? If you have tested then it would help if you post the details.
Check the base and rover LoRa configurations, they should be the same.
Tune the LoRa settings for maximum range, e.g. different frequencies & air data rate.
If I understand right and you are not changing the RS3 base when you switch rovers to RS (?) then maybe you have a Rover reception issue and there are some specific things you could look at:
If the RS works and RS3 doesn’t then try configuring the RS3 same as the RS was if it was different.
Possible RS3 Rover antenna problem. Do a simple test, e.g. swap antenna with the base and see if the RS still works ok.
Possible Rover receiver issue, ditto above but needs RS3’s reconfigured between Base/Rover. Does anything now change?
It’s indeed curious why your Reach RS performs better than the Reach RS3. I can confirm that we didn’t reduce the capacity of LoRa. The UHF antenna can be connected to the same port as the LoRa antenna, but they still work differently. The UHF antenna is only useful for the rover because the Reach RS3 is only capable of receiving the correction over UHF radio. For the base side, it requires an external UHF radio. You can learn more about this in this thread.
But back to your Lora issue, the guys above have already shared some pretty good tips to find the source of the issue, but here you can see the full checklist:
Check that the receivers are placed in the line of sight.
Mount the receivers on a survey pole or tripod of at least 1.8 m high to ensure they have a clear sky view.
Record the logs on the units for at least 10-15 minutes. We will need raw data logs in UBX format from both receivers, correction log in RTCM3 format from the rover, and position log in LLH format from the rover.
Place my Rs3 in “Base” with known coordinates.
First point to stakeout with Rs3 rover. number 3 with a distance of 233 meters. I managed to place it with difficulty.
I tried to stake out points 4 and 5 at a distance of 358 meters and I did not get a solution, single mode on the rover.
After a while and several attempts I decided to change Base Rs3 to point 3.
I try again to restate points 4 and 5, I don’t get any correction, single mode. Only 134-135 meters since new Base (Point 3).
Once again I have to take out my reach rs from 2018, I get a fix solution in a few minutes.
I decide to finish the work with the Rs 2018, I did not miss any corrections from the base Rs3.
Even so, I kept Rs3 rover on and got fix before reaching point 1. A very unstable fix (it goes from Fix to single all the time) that becomes annoying and embarrassing with my clients.
I share the configuration used in the Rs3 and Rs. From inside my house.
Seems like something hardware-wise may be wrong on the RS3 ROVER? Since RS3 BASE and old RS work?
Wonder if the LoRa antenna wire inside RS3 ROVER is disconnected Or faulty or some other internal issue? Even L1 L2 antenna wire disconnected or faulty? Dont open as to void warranty and Emlid may not help. Let them exhaust options before that of last resort.
Maybe swap the RS3 BASE with RS3 ROVER to see if ROVER works with old RS?
I guess could try different frequecies too if RS3 ROVER works after that test? Settings seem ok. Upload screenshots of the MESSAGES settings also.
Unfortunately, changing their position is not the solution. It was the first thing I tried.
Initially when I received my pair of RS3s my base antenna was the rover and my rover antenna was my base, but to the malfunction i decided to change the position.
Another thing I see is that my rs had the “fix and hold” option enabled, I don’t know if the rs3 are working in “continuous” mode, I understand that since the rs2 the fix and hold and continuous option is already disabled to choose manually.
I share the rtcm messages that are activated on base. although they are the values ​​that came from the factory, I have not modified them.
I hope the Emlid team tests their equipment in the field and not just in the office.
As additional information, I confirm that the problem only occurs when the rs3 is in rover mode.
I got your files via email, Erro. Thank you for it and for their screenshots! Let’s continue the discussion via email, and once we finish the investigation, we can share the result here as well.
I want to know why the rs3 fix is ​​very weak?.
It seems that they are programmed to work in “continuous” mode as I had written and not in “fix and hold” mode.
Another thing I don’t understand and that I assume is the main part of the problem is why the rs3 is programmed to jump from fix to single mode without going through float once it loses the fix state, that does a “reset” on the antenna.
This programming of simulating an automatic “circuit cut” does not make sense since it cuts all communication with the base (LoRa radio).
In the Rs when you lose fix you maintain float in most situations and you know that there is still communication between base and rover and you maintain a certain precision.
that does not happen with the RS3, when you lose fix it simulates a “reset or circuit cut” and it is more difficult to recover the fix when you are far from the base antenna.
There are even times that you lose fix and the antenna shows the message “no solution” as if it were turned on inside a house and there was no satellite on view.
I have been doing tests and I would the tittle of the post to Fix very unstable and difficult to recover in Rs3.
As I explained, when I use Rs3 as a base and Rs as rover I maintain a constant fix.
I think the problema could be in the way the Rs3 is programmed.
Continuous Mode and an automátic restart (circuit cut) when the fix is lost, wich makes it more difficult to recover a solution when the antenna is far away.
When the antennas are close there is no problem.
I just wanted to share the actual state of our investigation here as well.
Based on the full system reports of the two Reach RS3s, we couldn’t find any issues on the hardware side. Everything seems to be operational.
As the next step, we evaluate the logs from the units. In the base logs we discovered the solution status switched to Single when the corrections stopped coming to the unit:
Since there were no disconnections when the RS3 units were close to each other, the reason most likely lies in the environment. LoRa is a low-powered radio that requires a clear line of sight and no RF interference for the best performance. To improve its performance in a harsh environment, we’d recommend trying the recommendations from this support tip.
For example, sometimes, you can increase the LoRa baseline by lowering the air data rate. If the receiver transmits less data, the LoRa radio can show a better range. That could also affect the comparison tests of Reach RS and Reach RS3.
At its core, the solution calculation of Reach RS3 works the same way as it does on the Reach RS2 and Reach RS2+. The tilt compensation happens after that, so it shouldn’t affect the calculations’ stability.
I experienced the same issue while setting ground control points in the foresty area. It took a lot of walking to find a spot where the rover would get a fix 3000 ft away at the same elevation as the base. I spent 20 minutes hunting for a spot where I could get a fix in a little valley 1400 feet away and 60 ft lower than the base.
Thus, in areas with cellular emlid caster is probably the way to go.
I will be getting a LoRa amplifier to see if this will help. I will update you once I get it and test it.
