I have a question regarding the use of Trimble RTX service with EMLID units. I have a couple of RS2+ units and use trimbles when working with as a freelance surveyor here in the UK.
We use Trimble RTX for PPP processing, which is great, and it allows us to process in ETRS89 if needed. This is something we are way behind with here, compared to the NAD83 and GDA94 options of OPUS/ NRCAN and Auspos.
Unfortunately the EMLIDs are not supported by RTX. My question is this. Why? They say they support all dual frequency GNSS receivers and have various with L1 and L2, alongside the L1/L2 and L5 brackets. When Auspos, OPUS and NRCAN have EMLIDs as a stock unit, it annoys me that RTX is dragging their heels with this. I’ve sent questions to them through what they call a website but have had no response.
Our only official (without stuffing rinex headers etc) option currently is to use next day, less accurate PPP for processing data. Where if using a trimble antenna we can upload for accurate solution after 1 hour.
I was hoping for a bit of an explanation if possible as to the struggle to get this service opened up to EMLID users, and if EMLID have had any discussions around this? For us here is Europe we have almost no option for ETRS89 PPP free processing, without download of base data and running it ourselves.
To me, this is a prime example for learning to post process your data. Here in the USA, NGS CORS data is usually available within an hour. Why not setup you own base (s) and have real time data with logging data ?
If nothing else, use the bases as static receivers and post process. There are ways around this. I’m surprised Trimble has allowed other manufacturers receivers to use their service. We are fortunate to have RTN service provided by our states Geodetic Survey office to provide this for a fee of $600 per year. Is there not something similar in the UK ? I’d be surprised if there isn’t. Have you checked with transportation authorities or other government agencies involved with surveying ?
Why not use Emlid’s caster service ? It’s free and you’ll have real time data. Setup a base at your home or office if you have Internet available.
LEARN self post processing by purchasing commercial software. It’ll save you time and money in the long run.
Trimble CenterPoint RTX Post-Processing doesn’t support specific receivers per-se, it supports specific antennas and if you look closely at the list you can see the reason is they are predominantly high grade and geodetic variants.
And I wouldn’t be editing the RINEX files to modify the antenna name, or attempting to shoehorn PCV values back into the ANTENNA: DELTA H/E/N field. Not a good look.
If you want a good free online positioning service go back and look at AUSPOS, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. It’s not limited to GDA94, that’s provided for local legacy only. AUSPOS primarily provides local results in current GDA2020, and for international users such as yourself in ITRF2014.
If you can’t do the transformation in your own software simply use an online tool to do the transformation from ITR2014 to your local datum of choice e.g. ETRS89. It’s quick and easy .
I agree fully, stuffing rinex to get the result is not a good look, and is best avoided. For a cross check against other means it does the job however.
RTX does say they support all dual frequency receivers which is where my question for Emlid comes in. Have they had any discussion around this for access to RTX?
We use AUSPOS a lot, so I’m familiar with it. My point on GDA94/ NAD83 was more along the lines of how it is there alongside ITRF results. We do not have an equivalent here in the UK/ Europe for the simple free online PPP to get ETRS89 results. It’s not a major thing for us as we are almost universally ITRF for our work, but it is a consideration as it has been required a few times. And transformations is fine and easy as you say, and in most cases we are working in large projects with specific transformation parameters we have to follow.
As always we want to keep things simple, with clients wanting clean results from PPP services for the baseline logging and for the surveyor who has GNSS as a very small part of the work scope. The fewer moving parts makes the job easier and creates less avenue for mistakes.
Hi Bryan, thanks for your input, much appreciated.
You’ll notice my question was not regarding setting up my own base. I’ve been all over UK, Europe, Asia and Australia in the last few months for jobs so setting a base network for a simple GNSS baseline is a tad tricky. The question was also not about Emlid caster (which I love, great service/ tool). My question was not about RTK services. Much like power and running water we have such luxuries here too. My question was not about my lack of knowledge on processing. The bin fire of icons on my screen reminds me how much time I spend testing things out.
My question was simple. Has there been any discussion regarding adding Emlids to Trimble RTX? LEARNING to read the question might be handy.
I’d be interested to know if the Trimble VRS service can be used with the RS3’s too - a friend uses their DA2 system for GCP position data & uses the VRS service on a Pay-As-You-Go basis in 1hr blocks which is a very cost effective way for him to use the service.
I’ve been trying to find NTRIP providers in the UK that operate similar PAYG, but haven’t yet found any that are as granular as 1hr - most are usually at least 1 day.
I’m finding the NTRIP services in the UK to be very frustrating in this respect. The Free ones on RTK2Go are very limited in their geographic spread, and while I can get the OS Rinex files for PP to fix my own base each day, it would still be nice to have the option/ability to use NTRIP without having to pay an absolute fortune for it.
(Yes, I could set up my own CORS, and I’m looking at that, but it won’t be the answer for everything )
Seems you didn’t read into it, but along with some good advice given the limited information provided, Bryan did actually give you the answer.
The difference is commercial reality.
The other services you mention are all government organizations with public funding and working in their national interest.
Trimble isn’t a charity, they are a commercial organization that like any company need to stay competitive and profitable. What’s in it for them to prioritize or even provide free post processing services to Emlid users?
I don’t think the commercial reality is as clear cut as that. Firstly why would they offer a free PPP service with a decent list of non trimble units? That doesn’t seem like good business sense. You could purchase a Leica unit and run all your PPP through trimble RTX, which is no different from EMLID. As a working surveyor I’m fully aware of how access and level of subscription and upselling work within Leica and Trimble, one of the many plus sides of Emlid.
While I agree they have a commercial aspect to protect, and that is more than fair. They do however use base data which is owned, collected and managed by those government organisations for their commercial products. Certainly here in the UK anyway. Gaining any idea of where the base network spread is from any of our commercial RTK networks is difficult. The OS (our government organisation) is explicit in their parntership with trimble, hexagon and various others. Judging by coverage maps they use almost wholly the OSNet network for their commercial offerings.
Linking to Nick’s comment above. This is the reason why here in the UK we have incredibly high costs for RTK services with patchy coverage and long baselines. Its also the reason why we have no free to air CORS like is available in much of the US.
I have a hunch that the free PPP service may be a legacy of contracts entered into with governments across the globe which trimble have no interest upgrading. It is a shame.
I’m not complaining from a personal cost point of view, and I think trimble and hexagon have great products, I have a few treasured red boxes on the shelf behind me. I am happy to pay for services as long as they work and are reasonable. The current system, which RTX is a just working example of is hampering a lot of progress for many professionals who need geodetic data, survey services etc. The costs of getting this data are rising quickly. And for many people who could choose to do this themselves, the cost, learning curve of the software as Bryan talks of are offputting. I have had conversations with non survey people who avoid getting good quality data because of costs.
That’s why I asked the question. RTX is a great service, but is limited for a reason I cannot see. So I thought I would ask Emlid if they have had that discussion or have anything to say.
As I mentioned above their supported list is based on antenna’s, not receivers. Have a close look, they are predominantly high-grade geodetic antenna’s for modular receivers. There are only a relatively small number of integrated receiver antenna’s included.
As an example, I have a high-end Trimble Geo7X cm edition handheld that isn’t on the list and there were Access versions. But if you plug an external Zephyr 2 antenna it’s now supported. So it’s not outright vendor discrimination.
It’s not uncommon for large organizations, Trimbles core customer base, to mix and match modular receivers and antenna’s and this provides continuity for those customers.
And where there is direct competition in particular product segments, in this case high end enterprise grade geodetic equipment, it provides a valuable promotional and marketing capture point for Trimble.
Emlid is great gear and exceptional bang for buck, but at least for the moment is targeted at a different market segment. Your typical Emlid customer after being exposed to Trimble is highly unlikely to want to drop big bucks on high end gear, traffic would be more likely in the other direction, so there would be little incentive for Trimble to want to spend more marketing cost there.
The source of their base data has no bearing who’s antenna’s they may or may not wish to support.
You didn’t answer the question; what’s in it for Trimble to prioritize or even provide free post processing services to Emlid users?
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