Ray
To connect to all you need is the IP address or to bind to a device’s Bluethooth connection.
Once you are connected to a Reach module you can see the Reachview app which is coming from the Reach module. There’s no need for any app on a phone or computer.
Larry
Hi Ray.
The 3rd device is just used by me to logg raw data so that in the event of a communications failure, I have data being stored that I can now use for post processing. It is always a good idea in survey to check your measurements. This 3rd device will act as a check measurement.
I dont have any experience with the iphone environment, but I am sure there are options out there for you. All the Bluetooth does is stream the solution in NMEA format for the software on the phone to use for staking out, point storing, etc.
I ran a more robust system this weekend and will be testing it out on Tuesday (weather permitting) that cuts out the RFD radio part for sending corrections. I find that the RFD900 setup is extremely limiting at 1W an is almost exclusively line of site for sending data. Ill be placing 300 markers to 0.05cm accuracy for a client with the Reach and using a mobile data connection to send RTCM data. Ill give a post on my exact setup later one with a few photos. But the test that I ran yesterday were very encouraging.
Larry,
Thank you so much for explaining this further. Your reply is very informative. I ordered the Reach Kit and am trying to get up to speed before it arrives.
Ray
Luke,
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
I like your idea of using the 3rd reach in your surveying. Once I get up to speed, I will be adding a 3rd reach.
I was looking at the RFD900 radios as well and see what you are saying about line of site.
I have been working with a group that is writing GIS/GPS apps for smart phones and have seen some very interesting technology. Cradlepoint makes mobile modem/routers that enhance the 3G 4G signals. We have also seen Verizon’s Cellular on Wheels (COW) technology that literally creates a mobile cell site. This technology was use in the Afgan and Iraq wars for the US military for communication. Since you don’t really need an outside cell signal this type technology is also an option, though the COW’s would be expensive to deploy.
Do you know of any radio signal that does not need line of sight that might work as well i.e. Short wave?
Ray
The first thing you need to get the Reach to give you a solid Fix in my opinion is to buy a great GNSS antenna like the one Luke is using: TW2411 or the one I use the TW2405. I think they’re the same antenna just the one I have is an OEM model.
To overcome the communication problem, two tethered quadcopter hovering just above the tree line should work well. One quad for each Reach location with the RFD900 radios.
The FAA has not given approval for tethered small aircraft but the liability seems quite small given the location.
Finding a hole in the tree canopy might be difficult.
Have fun.
Larry
Larry,
Thanks for your idea. Tethering two quadcopters could be very difficult even in an open field. Since they fly under GPS control, you would need to switch to manual control or magnetic compass control and in both of these flying methods, the craft would drift.
When you say tethered, do you mean that they would actually be tied together with a line?
The FAA is most concerned with flying over people, over 400 ft or in airport space and they would not care in un-populated forest.
You are correct about flying through a hole in the canopy.
Ray
Ray
No, you have the wrong idea. One quad would be near the Reach base station GNSS receiver and be tethered to the ground. The tether is sending both power and the serial signals to the quad. A RFD900 radio would send the serial correction data from the base station to rover with the RFD900 radio.
The rover would then also have a tethered quad with a RFD900 radio to receive the data from the base station’s quad. The rover’s quad would send correction data to the rover GNSS receiver down its tether while also receiving power from the tether.
Larry
Wow, I dont know if you guys survey really fast in other parts of the world, but my survey jobs tend to last all day! Keeping a quad, unattended, all day in the sky may be a small mission.
Ray, I suggest not over complicating things and spending more money by just choosing your base location carefully and getting your radio as high up as you can.
Your COW idea sounds interesting.
I have found during my tests and from many years experience working with NTRIP all over Africa, that having blazing fast internet is not really necessary for using RTCM data. I would say that 80% of the areas I have worked in all have EDGE or 2G which has been fine. At times the latency catches up with you, but after a few moments, it will be fine again.
I am definitively not against using radios for communication, as they work very well in other more expensive setups, but those radios (or PDL) are super high power (20W) and run a gauntlet of problems that is beyond the scope of this device and what it is intended for. Problems like cost, licensing, power consumption, etc.
Luke,
Thanks for keeping me on track. The quadcopter idea was only an idea my surveyor was throwing out as a possible way to collect a single point by getting high enough for the device to see above the canopy. I have no intentions of following that area as I will not be collecting points in deep canopy for my applications.
As the problem of high watt radios and licensing, I personally have no plans to follow that course.
The COW is an area that can be pursued and the costs can be under $1000 and from that point go much higher.
Larry,
When I ordered the reach kit last week, I only knew part of this story. Thanks to you and Luke’s posts and others I am now discovering the wide versatility of these RTK devices to communicate the data they collect in so many ways.
Before making the decision, I was looking at another RTK kit. The main reason, at the time was the Reach devices ability to communicate without the use of a laptop in the field.
In my early days of GPS in the field we used a USB GPS antenna plugged into my 17" laptop running ArcMap to find oil and gas wells in the field in remote locations. It worked, but it was so prone to dropping out when the USB plug was jiggled. At that point it took s 10 or 15 minutes to get going again.
This technology should make it possible for surveyors to lower their entry costs of equipment or provide a backup.
In my case, as a GIS guy, I think that this will make my maps much more accurate as I do have the backup of a land surveyor most of the time.
Ray
I used a cell phone to get a CORS connection and I had good luck getting a keeping a cell phone connection in difficult areas for cell phones by using a large antenna with an amplifier.
Hopefully, we will soon get a two-way connection for the Reach Bluetooth so you can use two cell phones, one for each Reach to communicate to each other. You would need to pay for the data used but that should not be that much. While the cell phone was be used for data it also still worked for phone calls. I used the cell phone with a Trimble autopilot for farming.
Larry
Larry,
I assume you have a farming operation as well.
Just recently, I installed a cellular antenna to get cell data through a Cradlepoint modem/router in our fish camp near the mouth of the Mississippi River. We did not have DSL or Cable internet available, so this was our only way to get our security camera to output imagery. It is working great and solved our problem.
I set up one of my partners with a high gain cellular antenna and Cradlepoint in his vehicle. It would not be hard to make it portable for field use and would make it possible to get Cors/Opus anywhere I would need to go. The Cradlepoint uses a SIM card and creates a very strong wifi signal over about a 600 meter radius in open areas as well.
Going back to the GNSS antenna, the one that comes with the kit is a TW4721. Do you think that it will work as well as the one you are using and recommend? It looks like it has similar specs except that it can receive Galileo signals as well. I guess we are all waiting on the firmware upgrade that will make it possible to get that signal for now.
Where do you live?
Ray
I’m a retired Minnesota farmer that’s playing with multicopters for fun.
I tried the Kit antenna for a few days and in my location. I could not get a FIX.
Using the TW2405 I was able to obtain a FIX and have it continue to be in the FIX mode for a day.
When it come to GNSS antennas size does matter. The Kit antenna is 25m x 25mm. The TW 2405 is round and is 50mm in diameter.
Larry
Larry,
It is hard to beat your experience. The cellular verizon that I am using is directional, comes in two parts and is very big. It was easy to point.
Where did you get your TW2505? The Tallysman site is now recommending a later model TW2506 that is identical but a little larger in diameter.
Larry,
One other thing, I was a citrus farmer in Plaquemines Parish 70 miles below New Orleans. . We grew Navels and Satsumas. Hurricane Katrina ended our grove, but by that time I was involved in GIS mapping on properties and minerals that several groups bought around the country and did not replant.
GIS mapping is fun, but tedious at times.
I bought my first quadcopter over a year ago and have used it to take pictures that could be geo-referenced.
Ray
I’ve been building multicopters for 10 years. I know that they will be used in many ways that we have not even thought about yet.
Larry
Ray
I recommended the TW2405 Tallysman antenna. You do not want a 2505 or 2506 they are not GNSS antennas. The are for Globalstar™ satellite cell phones.
Digikey or Mouser are good sources of electronic equipment.
The MCX connector on this antenna is made to work with the Reach but the cable is less than 8 inches long.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tallysman-wireless-inc/33-2405-05-0150/1526-1010-ND/4862782
Larry
Larry,
That was a typo on my part. I meant to say TW2406.
I agree with you about the uses and future uses of the UAVs. I have a friend in Montana that works with a company that now has a commercial license from the FAA. They have very interesting services they are planning using both LIDAR and infrared cameras of the very high end variety.
Larry,
Thanks for the link to
DigiKey. I have been on a chat session with them and they are sending me a quote on the TW2406 with a 48 inch cable. Does the reach have a male or female connection for the antenna on it?
Otherwise, they have a 24 inch cable with a male on one end and female connector on the other for an additional $16.
The tech says that the add on cable will not degrade the signal.
The special order quote from Tallysman will probably be high anyway and the arrival time will probably take awhile.
Thanks again for your help on this. I am sure that it will make a difference. I am noticing in the forum that there or others that are talking about the drop out issue and looks like the antenna you are using will probably solve for this.
Ray
The 2405 has a male MCX connector on it and the Reach of course has a female MCX socket.
Ebay has a bunch of MCX 6" male and female cables for $7 bucks but they come from China and that should take a month or so.
The size of the ceramic antenna is the important thing. The 2406 has a larger PCB which may make it easier to mount but I would not think it would improve performance.
Larry
